Parable Of The Patch And Wine Skins In The Smoke
In all three Synoptic gospels, Jesus concludes a conversation about the contrast between his teaching and practice and that of the Pharisees (and John the Baptist) by means of a parable about wine and wineskins.No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out, and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved. 9:16–17)No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment.
If they do, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse. And people do not pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins. (Mark 2.21–22)No one tears a piece out of a new garment to patch an old one. If they do, they will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old. And people do not pour new wine into old wineskins.
If they do, the new wine will burst the skins; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. And none of you, after drinking old wine, wants the new, for you say, ‘The old is better.’ (Luke 5.36–39)The reference of the two parables is fairly straightforward. In most cultures, cloth shrinks when it is washed, and it you put an unprewashed piece of material onto cloth that has already shrunk, when it is washed it will itself shrink and tear a hole. Partially fermented wine (the ‘must’) was stored in wineskins, but as the fermentation process continued, it produced more gases and so stretched the wineskin which was made from the hide of a goat. An old skin which was no longer elastic could not stretch for this new wine, so you needed to use new skins for the current years’ wine production. As with most of Jesus’ parables, the information that it drew on was relatively mundane.
But what is its significance? What is Jesus referring to?The most common interpretation of this is the Jesus is showing the superiority of his teaching, and rejecting the Pharisees’ approach to religion—and more broadly, establishing the grounds for the rejection of Jewish belief and practice and the establishment of a new religion of Christianity.
“(Note that, as ever, Luke and Matthew never agree against Mark, which is a key argument for Marcan priority.) So the parable needs to be read in the context of these stories, and in particular the teaching about fasting. The argument I mentioned above continues thus:These parables came in response to the Pharisees’ question about Jesus’ practice of fasting compared to their own and John the Baptist’s.
Yes, which is precisely why the phrase ‘fruit of the vine’ is used: the phrase is chosen carefully, to cover both wine and vinegar.There is a succession of mentions of an as-yet-undrunk drink:-the cup I drink (ch. 10)-I will not drink again of fruit of vine till (ch. 14)-take this cup from me (ch. 14)-wine and myrrh (ch. 15).Not till the 5th mention (vinegar) does Jesus drink.
The first mention of the cup) he is flanked on right and left by those for whom those positions have been prepared. So this is the coming of the kingdom promised since 1.15. The Lord reigns from a tree. Hi Ian,I need to take a closer look at what you say, but there are few things that strike me immediately.We need to take into account both the world within the texts, but also the world of the audiences to which the gospels were written. Even though Matthew has taken Mark’s story, probably written to to Christians in Rome, his Gospel is written to Jewish Christians who still meet in synagogues, and are observers of the Torah, and quite likely see themselves more as a continuation of Judaism than the other gospel redactors. Matthew is more sympathetic to the Pharisees. I would think this is the reason that the parable is followed by stories more relevant to a Jewish Christian audience.I am not sure that the comparison of modern day organisational structures with what may well have been a less structured Christianity is appropriate.
And turning it into a personal reflection seems to reflect modern individualism rather than the situation of communities of Christians of the late first century. IMHO it should be a community reflection, not a personal reflection. Hi Ian,I may agree that, as you say, ‘the parable is not about creating new structures or institutions (which surely themselves, over time, will become rigid as the old wineskins have done) but about people who are willing to receive the teaching about what God is now doingHowever, we also know that St. Paul sought to work within the existing structures of his contemporaries until sheer obstinacy made it impossible: ‘But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.’ (Acts 19:9)In terms of applying this to church planting, I would suggest that the parish system bestows incumbents with too much power.Christ Church Central, Sheffield is a prime example.
Back in 2013, the then Bishop of Sheffield, Steven Croft, said of the non-parochial church plant (which was founded in 2003 by Rev. Tim Davies, curate at Christ Church Fulwood, with 50 adults from that parish) that it ‘could not be contained within the legal structures of the Church of England.’Although, back in 2003, Bishop’s Mission Orders did not exist, it should have been possible for a Conventional District to have been set up. However, this would have required agreement with the incumbent of the Anglo-Catholic parish of St. Matthew’s (where Christ Church Central is located).Christ Church Central had no alternative but to be founded as a non-parochial church plant, since Canon Palmer, who, at the time, was vicar of Fulwood and chairman of the diocesan mission committee, decided not to go down the provocative route of an evangelical parish plant in the back-yard of an Anglo-Catholic incumbent.Despite this, by 2014, Christ Church Central had grown to a thriving Sunday attendance of over 200. In 2016, the church purchased a former nightclub as its new home with a capacity for 300.That’s not a bad outcome for Rev. Tim Davies, a curate who, in following his vision, had to leave the parish licensing system.BMOs and strategic development funding may well provide the flexibility which givesthe temporary impetus for setting up church plants. However, they still don’t address the ongoing need for such fledgling congregations to be eventually recognised by the diocese as fellow churches in their own right and to be treated as equals in the longer term.
Continued?And in the discourse which contains Matt 13:52 we have the view to keep (some of) the old as well as the new, emphasising the continuity of the teaching of the Torah with the Teaching of Jesus. I don’t know to what extent the traditions of the Pharisees, which were in addition to the Torah, are examined/criticised.‘Have you understood all this?’ They answered, ‘Yes.’ 52And he said to them, ‘Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like the master of a household who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old.’.
Forgive me but I am not educated in Hermeneutics. Didnt even finish the 8th grade.The more I try to Intellectually attempt to learn scripture, the less I learn. For me the “old wineskins vs new wineskins ” have many meanings. The most important take I’ve been able to understand is in simply being flexible to what God is doing and wants to do and that doesnt always line up with mans rendition. I’ve heard so many teachings and desire to grasp the word of God in its entirety old & new, religion vs relation. Rules vs rules.
It makes me feel dumb when reading and not getting the simple crux of the matter which may be different for myself than others. So doth my Lord know my heart and its cries of freedom from old vs new and all of its applications in specific scriptural context or a metaphor for a personal application in a situation.Whatever the case, I cry out with utterance for freedom of fear, fear to face the unfamiliar “new day” fear of not grasping the process of the stretching within. Fear of failure vs faith, fear of missing an open door, fear of not fulfilling the destiny predestined.I’m frightened as hope deferred has made my heart sick and I’m grasping at the hem, while being grabbed by the old past.Please pray for me.Thank you. Tried to process what your trying to convey, your obviously a very intellectual person and have a strong need to express your learning, probably to pastoral or college level readers, of which, I suppose are not so likely to search in this way.
Parable Of The Patch And Wine Skins In The Smoke Lyrics
Personally, I need everything in a more modern, simple style, as I think the majority of the public does, but that is just my belief.I read through several paragraphs before I got totally scrambled. I don’t really want to come across as negative or contradictory, but I really have a need to understand this subject, but I also need to be able to understand what I’m reading on the subject. Just thought you might like to know. Sorry, moving on. Blessings and peace to you.
Thank you for your responses to my teaching, 'Are We Settling on Our Lees?' As some of you suspected, there is no scriptural basis for reusing old wineskins. One brother tried to use the parable of the good Samaritan where the Samaritan poured in oil and wine into the man's wounds to heal him, to say that an old wineskin can be made reusable by doing the same.There is a big difference in the intent of these two parables. In Matthew chapter nine and Mark two where it speaks about the new wine and old wineskins, Jesus was responding to those who clung to following John the Baptist and to the followers of the Pharisees. He referred to their devotion to these teachings as 'old wine skins.' As I said in my article, God doesn't rejuvenate the old systems of men, He makes all things new. Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them.'
(Isaiah 42:9, NKJV). (See also Isaiah 43:19, 2 Corinthians 5:17, and Revelation 21:5). Men cling to their traditions and in so doing make void and of no effect the commandments of God: what the Spirit IS saying to the Church currently. This they do to their own downfall.In the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37), Jesus is answering a legalistic Jew who asked Him, 'Who is my neighbor?' To Jesus' statement 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Jesus was here referring to a poor soul in need, the one fallen by the wayside who was being passed by the self-righteous Jews who didn't want to defile themselves with the blood of the man who had been beaten up (Of course, their traditions told them to avoid human blood).In the first instance (wineskins), Jesus is dealing with the fixed and inflexible institutions of men. In the second (the good Samaritan) He is dealing with the hearts of men and our need to show mercy to our fellow man.Answer me this.
Leather Wineskins
If an old wineskin can be refurbished and made elastic and used again for new wine, doesn't that make Jesus a liar? I think that some of us are so bound to our traditions that we will make our institutions 'true' at all cost even if we have to make God a liar (See Rom. Also if the wineskin can be reused as some suggest, then how do you un-shrink a piece of old cloth so that you can patch it with a new piece? I am sorry, but it is this kind of thinking that Jesus was talking about when he warned the Pharisees, 'You are making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.' (Mark 7:13, NKJV).To some, it is more important to keep the traditions of men than obey the Holy Spirit as He directs the Church today both directly into our hearts and through His prophets.
These are they of whom Jesus spoke in chapter 23 of Matthew. (Comments in brackets added by me.) Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous. You make an institution out of ministries of the Spirit sent unto you. and say, `If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.' You are blind to your own self-righteousness as you cling to your traditions. Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.' Can you see that it is THIS generation that is being judged as it rejects the leading of the Spirit today?
God is still sending prophets to speak to the Church and guess what the result will be? O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! Your house is left to you desolate. These 'hallowed institutions' of men that were built over the bones of the prophets of the past will be destroyed and left in desolation.
For I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, `Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!' 23:29-39)Those who hold to their traditions will not see any rejuvenating from the Lord until they 'let go and let God.' They will not see Him again, until they say, 'BLESSED IS HE, THE PROPHET WHO COMES IN THE NAME AND THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD WITH GOD'S WORD FOR THIS HOUR!' Those who are like the wind and follow the Spirit wherever He blows WILL see Him, again and again.Blessings on you as you seek HIM!